Brain Based Parenting
Brain Based Parenting, The Boys Ranch Podcast for families.
We all know how hard being a parent is, and sometimes it feels like there are no good answers to the difficult questions families have when their kids are struggling.
Our goal each week will be to try and answer some of those tough questions utilizing the knowledge, experience, and professional training Cal Farley’s Boys Ranch has to offer.
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podcasts@calfarley.org
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To Apply:
https://apply.workable.com/cal-farleys-boys-ranch/j/25E1226091/
For More Information about Cal Farley's Boys Ranch:
https://www.calfarley.org/
Music:
"Shine" -Newsboys
CCS License No. 9402
Brain Based Parenting
They’ve Graduated!!! Now What?: Navigating Ages 18-25
Parenting doesn't end at 18—it evolves into supporting young adults who have adult freedom but still-developing brains through age 25.
Contact:
podcasts@calfarley.org
To Donate:
https://secure.calfarley.org/site/Donation2?3358.donation=form1&df_id=3358&mfc_pref=T
To Apply:
https://apply.workable.com/cal-farleys-boys-ranch/j/25E1226091/
For More Information about Cal Farley's Boys Ranch:
https://www.calfarley.org/
Music:
"Shine" -Newsboys
CCS License No. 9402
Welcome to Brain-Based Parenting, the Boys Ranch podcast for families. We all know how hard being a parent is, and sometimes it feels like there are no good answers to the difficult questions families have when their kids are struggling. Our goal each week will be to try and answer some of those tough questions, utilizing the knowledge, experience and professional training Cal Farley's Boys Ranch has to offer. Now here is your host, Cal Farley's Staff Development Coordinator, Joshua Sprock.
Speaker 2:Welcome everyone and thank you for joining us today as we look at another aspect of our parenting adventure. Today, we're going to discuss parenting through the years 18 to 25. To do that, I'm joined today by Kim Reeves, our Vice President of Alumni and Community Relations. Hello, Jesse Poppy, one of our house parents out here. Hello, Sandy Poppy. Hello, and Mike Wilhelm Hello everyone. Kim Jesse, Sandy, I've invited you on the show today not only because you've raised your own biological children into adulthood, but you've also helped raise a lot of other kids into adulthood. Would you mind telling our listeners a little about what you do at Boys Ranch?
Speaker 3:Well, one of the things that I do for Boys Ranch is I work in our alumni support department where we help former residents of our programs generally they are between 18 and 25, transition from the campus into adulthood. We do have a housing program where they can live and have case management through our services. So we do work a lot with this particular population.
Speaker 2:So you've probably seen and heard a lot of things from kids this age. I have.
Speaker 3:I have, as well as my own children.
Speaker 2:Yes, sandy and Jesse.
Speaker 4:We're house parents and we are house parents to kids in an adolescent home, girls in an adolescent home, and we've worked with Cal Farley's for a lot of years and we have two adult children of our own.
Speaker 2:So you also probably have a lot of experience. I bet a lot of the kids who you've helped raise call you quite a bit asking for help and advice.
Speaker 4:Yes, sir, we stay in touch with a lot of our alumni really regularly and try to answer all their questions and help them out.
Speaker 2:As we do each week. Let's start by jumping into our question of the day, since we're talking about our adult children, age 18 to 25, what would you say is the dumbest thing you've done PG-rated of course when you were age 18 to 25?
Speaker 5:Although it's kind of hard to enumerate those bad decisions. But I'll preface it with saying that for every bad decision came a life lesson, and in the long run it was maybe not all that bad of a decision.
Speaker 5:But I'd already dropped out of college. I was working for a soda pop company as a deliverer and was making really good money at the time, and on a whim I quit my job and a friend and I went to the Pecos Wilderness to stay as long as we could, and it turned out to be about nine days, and then I had to rejoin society and find another job and move on with my life.
Speaker 6:Did you run out of peanut butter and jelly sandwiches, or what?
Speaker 2:That'd make me want to come back to civilization too, I think.
Speaker 3:Well, I have a story from when I first moved into my very own apartment and, anyway, the shower head broke off, along with a large piece of the plaster behind the shower head. My roommate and I talked about it and we decided we liked it better that way. There was just this one long pipe that shot water out. It's like this is great.
Speaker 6:So not only do we not have a problem.
Speaker 3:This is better than what we had. So, needless to say, we didn't make a maintenance report and anyway, several weeks later, the maintenance man comes to our door and he said Girls, do y'all have a leak in here? And we said, no, we don't have any kind of leak. And he said Well, something's happened Because the apartment below y'all the ceiling just caved in. Oh no, and we looked at each other oh no, it's the shower. And then we begged him please don't tell the landlord, please don't tell. We didn't realize that water the whole time was just running down the back and onto the ceiling below us, and so he didn't tell us. But we didn't do that again.
Speaker 3:We made sure anytime there was a maintenance problem that we reported it but we had no idea and I see my kids, as well as my VR kids, do things just out of not knowing, just a lack of experience, and so not malicious, just not knowing.
Speaker 4:I think that for me, the dumbest thing I did was I was raised in a home in a small town and I really had never lived in a big city, and I decided that I would jump out and go to college far from home, in a big city, with no car, and the college was a private Christian university. So it cost me a lot of money and my parents did not really have the money to send me to college, especially there. So I took out lots of loans against my dad's wishes, and it took me until well past year 25 to figure out what a mess I'd made of my finances. And I was lonely, far from home. I didn't have anybody that I knew, and so it was not my most successful time in college either.
Speaker 6:Dumbest thing, boy, there's a constellation of dumb things. Yeah, but Josh says PG rated and that narrows it down quite a bit. Just a dumb thing was, like Jesse mentioned, dropping out of college. Well, I stopped going to class when I was at college and that really didn't work very well. Yeah, so I ended up bouncing out of college, so that would be a rank amongst the dumber things I did when I was in that age. It's rated PG, but I never went out to the wilderness with oatmeal like you, jesse. Okay, yeah.
Speaker 2:So when your child turns 18, you're done parenting right.
Speaker 1:Sure.
Speaker 2:That's when the hard part really starts. I've heard it said keep them alive until they're 25. Can you talk about what that saying means and why it's so important?
Speaker 4:Well, I think here at Cal Farley's we would tell you that that's related to the fact that by the time they're 25, their brain has had time to mature further than it is at 18. And, believe me, it's definitely not mature at 18. It is at 18. And, believe me, it's definitely not mature at 18. And so if we can manage to help them survive that long, then hopefully there's a chance for them to become the productive citizens and adults that we are all dreaming that they'll be.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think 18 to 25 was probably equally the best and the hardest time of my life. So, as a parent, how do you watch your children go through these highs and lows and how do you know when and when not to get involved?
Speaker 3:I think it varies with each child. I think it's a little bit different, but when there are lows, I do feel compelled to be the person to reach out and not wait for them necessarily to come to me. I think a lot of times that kids think once they turn 18 and through 25, that they should have things figured out, that they should have things figured out, that they should know how to do things. They're legally an adult and I try to tell kids all the time it's okay, none of us knew what to do and you haven't failed. I hear that word a lot. I failed and I always say we're not going to have that in our vocabulary. All it is is you were just gathering experience so that you didn't have enough information before to make the best decision.
Speaker 3:And so I think it's important to reassure them that we don't expect for them to have everything figured out just because they turned 18.
Speaker 4:We sort of act like because they turned 18, the world tells them they're grown. They tell us they're grown and that they don't need us anymore. But the truth is we don't have terminology for it, so I'm going to create a term here. They're really taught adults. They're just toddlers learning to be adults. They're not grown yet.
Speaker 3:Sandy, it's so funny that you say that, because I have always likened this age group to toddlers, because with a toddler they have all this mobility, they can run, they can walk, they can walk but they don't have reasoning enough to keep them safe, to keep things out of their mouth. You have to watch them all the time. With this age group they have so much freedom and independence, but they still don't have the brain development to not take risks and to make the decisions that they need to. So I've always said they are just like toddlers. I love that terminology. I'm glad you made that.
Speaker 4:And not the skill set either. No, they don't Just like as toddlers. Toddlers are learning to walk, they're learning to feed themselves, they're learning all those things. This group of kids in this age category are learning to be adults. They're not really there yet, and some days what I have found.
Speaker 3:Some days they're more like children and some days they're more like children and some days they're more like adults. And I think it's important for us to have the flexibility to kind of move through those states with them and try to figure out are you more a child today, or are you more an adult?
Speaker 2:So what should you do, or maybe not do, to help support your 18 to 24 year old child?
Speaker 5:I think that with our own children, we gave them a base to work off of, we raised them to be able to make choices and to understand decision making, and so you would call upon those skills that you know you've given those kids before they turned 18. As we are house parents for kids that didn't have our experiences growing up, sometimes we have to get in a little deeper, a little quicker, because one we don't know that they have the background to solve the problem and the life experience that they need to figure it out.
Speaker 6:Yeah, I was thinking, josh, this seems like the big thing is to be available, and it's so easy in this transition to have a great need for control and be reactive, and so easy for bridges to get burnt but to be a safe sounding board and to continue, no matter how far off in left field they might seem to be, to take a deep breath and make sure that the relationship doesn't rupture. So, because they're going to need us right.
Speaker 2:So why are boundaries important to establish during this time period?
Speaker 4:I think they're important to establish all the time, but maybe especially during this time period, because as parents, it's our desire to see them succeed and sometimes we even take their failures as our own failures and we take their mistakes and the times they mess up and we blame ourselves for it and we think it's a reflection of us. So I think it's really important to understand that this is my child, who is learning how to do life, and they're going to make mistakes, just like I did, and so I have to have boundaries. I can't rescue them from every bad decision they make, but I can walk side by side with them through the fallout of that bad decision. There is fallout and they need to know that we're still going to be there for them. So it's like being present without being in charge.
Speaker 6:That's good Be present without being in charge.
Speaker 2:I bet that's easier said than done sometimes, though Absolutely so. How would y'all advise our listeners to set up and establish these boundaries?
Speaker 3:No, I think it's important that those conversations happen early and you know that you don't wait until they're 18 to talk about what the expectations are. I think it's important to set those parameters, you know, maybe when they're still under your roof, but it's still a parent-child relationship even when they turn 18. And if they do have to move back to talk about, you know you're going to do your own laundry, you know. But I love what you said being available without being in charge. Also, to make sure that, like I said, I think those conversations have to happen early and maybe have to be repeated.
Speaker 6:Boy, that's a great, that's a great point. And I don't know, boy, I know that we I'm thinking about myself we just we didn't do so well in that. But to start early, but what would you say to a listener who's right now, just in the midst of this, didn't have those early discussions, and how would they start setting up boundaries?
Speaker 3:Think of communication, you know, in a non-hostile, non-judgmental way. Have those conversations as soon as possible. If you're in that position right now. Have them right now, before you get angry because of some boundary that they have crossed but they didn't even know was there, because of some boundary that they have crossed but they didn't even know was there. And so, because anger is no, no one wears that well and we never have our best conversations to be respectful to each other and just give each other some space. Adult children need more space.
Speaker 2:They need more space. What would you do to help your young adult when they fail?
Speaker 4:Well, I don't think it's helpful to point out that they fail. I think that they generally know they fail. So both with our own children and with the kids that we've raised at Cal Farley's, I just we try to be present and we see them floundering and a lot of times I might say reach out to them and say, hey, you want to get together and talk for a while? Or I haven't heard from you lately, how's it going? You know, and most of the time they will just spill their hearts to you about what's going on. But they just needed somebody to be willing to reach out and open that door for them, because they're still not great at that and so that's hard for them. So be there and open the door for conversation. If they're willing to hear advice, you can share advice or possible choices with them. But they have to make the ultimate choice about how they're going to deal with that. And just to know that you're going to keep loving them no matter what, that's I was going to say too.
Speaker 3:I think, especially with the alumni that we work with, when they have what they perceive as a failure I said I hate that, I don't like that word because I think it's just a matter of not having all the information or the skill set to make the right decision. But often they feel so embarrassed or that they feel that they've disappointed us and that they don't want to reach out. And so, yes, being present and always one of our mottos in alumni support is love them as unconditionally as is humanly possible and let them know that, let them know that. And so if it's as unconditional as is humanly possible, that whatever mistake, it's not going to impact that relationship negatively. It's a no-judgment zone.
Speaker 5:Yes, I think that it's important also that in the discussion with them, that they already feel guilty about what they've done. They know they failed. They don't need you to confirm that they failed. What they need to know is that you heard them, and so we have a technique called reflective listening, and that is we're not thinking about what we're going to say next to them. We're thinking about what they're saying and then we repeat parts of it to make sure that we're on the same page, that they're on, so that we can guide them the right direction when it's time for the guidance to come in, if they're open to guidance.
Speaker 6:Boy, and there's a great, there's a landmine here. You can step on pretty quick, isn't there? Because if you've been watching this thing, this train wreck unfold, and if you're not vigilant, not aware of how frustrated you are and angry you are, what you want to do is, bam, as soon as they go there, you're going to want to pile on right, and that's going to short circuit the whole process, isn't it? And it's going to start to close the door.
Speaker 2:So what's the best way to respond when your child calls you asking for advice?
Speaker 3:We have a saying in my house that when the kids call and there's something going on, we say do you need a toolkit or do you need a bucket? You know, is it really advice that you need or do you just need to vent for a little bit, and sometimes it's both that you need, or do you just need to vent for a little bit, and sometimes it's both? But again, nonjudgmental and just listen to what their concerns are and try to maybe be vulnerable and talk about some of your own experiences in a similar situation and how the mistakes that we made in that kind of situation or what worked for us.
Speaker 6:You know, if they come asking for advice, that's a cue that most of us we're going to be all over that and want to start to, because we've been ruminating and thinking what they should be doing right. And I really think that when they come to that point and they ask to start with a question, can you tell me more about the situation or what have you learned right now and let things open up where they're the ones doing, talking, and draw them out, because to jump right into all this great advice we've had in our head forever and we just can't wait to, I think that that will short circuit the process. So a good question will draw some wisdom into the room.
Speaker 2:So what about when you see them obviously struggling, but they don't come to you for advice?
Speaker 4:For me, that's a cue to reach out to them and not to say I see you struggling, but to just reach out and let them know hey, I've been thinking about you and I care about you. I wonder how you're doing. I see you doing this successfully, or that successfully because then they don't feel defensive. Or that successfully because then they don't feel defensive and they don't feel the need to, you know, hide what's going on from you, or shut the door because they can't listen to your voice right now, because their own voice is loud enough in their ears, maybe. So I think that it's important that you reach out. Always when somebody's struggling, we reach out. When a toddler falls down while they're trying to learn to walk, there is not a single adult that sits there and waits on them to just get back up by themselves If they're on the floor crying, everybody's like oh, and they all run to help this child up.
Speaker 4:We need to have that same response to our young adults, because they're still learning to be adults.
Speaker 6:Yeah, and I would say to be really holding them close in prayer and then also avoid another temptation. And there's another temptation If we're watching them struggle, it's pretty easy to get toxic about it, to ruminate in an unhealthy way, and then probably even worse than that, if we have a sounding board that's not really a healthy sounding board. We want to share that frustration with someone else. That feeds into a negative narrative and that can all go very wrong, where our hearts will get bitter and we're not going to be very good help for our kids, right.
Speaker 3:I actually asked my soon to be 25 year old daughter about this question and she said always please reach out, because if I'm in a place where I can't, I need you to see that I'm hurting and reach out, but not in a way that's going to make me feel more guilty or shame about what's going on. And again, maybe that goes back to loving them as unconditionally as humanly possible and just hear, just listen, but absolutely to be the person who reaches out.
Speaker 2:So it's not uncommon for 18 to 25-year-olds to make life choices or philosophical decisions that go against our own family values. How would you advise our listeners to handle these situations?
Speaker 3:One of the things that we've talked about in my family with this is that, because this has happened with both of my children, my biological children and if you can put your ego aside because I think sometimes as parents, our egos start getting bruised and EGO stands for edges got out, and that's hard but to not take it personally to ask them about what it is they feel about the situation, if they are going against the values that you raised them with.
Speaker 3:Well, tell me about why you believe something else. Tell me more about that. Let me find out why you're passionate about this. And I think it's an opportunity for us to grow as people if we will dissect, have the courage to dissect our own values, because do we believe it just because our mom believed it or our grandmother believed it, or is it something that we really do hold you know very dear? But to dissect that and say, okay, this is why I believe this. And I think, if you'll allow your kids to talk to you about these situations, that it really is an opportunity for you to grow even stronger in your own beliefs after you have kind of dissected those you know, or maybe question them and say I never really thought about it like that.
Speaker 3:And so you know, it doesn't matter who teaches us, as long as we learn, and sometimes our children are our teachers.
Speaker 4:I think it's important to ask yourself the questions too, like is this value that I'm holding worth losing this relationship over? Because I have watched relationships disintegrate over values that, in five years, would not matter at all to anyone, and so it really is important to ask is this worth losing this relationship over, and how would God handle this? How does he handle this? How does Jesus love us when we go against His values? Because His request of us is that we love the way he loves, and so it means that we have to examine those things and think about them and ask ourselves Because, at this age, because these young adults' minds and brains are not fully developed, it's a prime opportunity for relationships to be destroyed, and sometimes irreparably, and so, as the adult with the mature brain, we need to think about that carefully and about how to handle it.
Speaker 6:Oh man, this is such a good question and good and Sandy and Kim, I appreciate what you both said about this Boy to have friends, alums, that stay in touch, and they're way out off in left field according to my belief system and my values. But what I always want to make crystal clear one it's a great opportunity for my soul to grow in love and compassion and understand more of God, the Father's heart. You know we're told to be kind and compassionate to one another, forgiving each other, just as in Christ God forgave us. But to make crystal clear to my friends that I love you because you're you. Okay, I may not agree with everything that you do or believe, I probably don't understand everything about it and I don't have everything right myself, but I want you to know that I love you because you're you. And we do not want to burn a bridge.
Speaker 6:And I've seen a lot of people in the recent times really go through some trials around this that maybe they've grown up in a very conservative faith community and then have a child that is committed to a lifestyle that's way outside of what that faith community would believe and teach, and I've been encouraged to see so many of them wrestle with this and come around to this realization that this is my child period and we're not going to burn a bridge. You're going to come have Christmas dinner with us and we're going to do the things that we do and this relationship transcends all things. So it's a great challenge and I know probably a lot of listeners are going through some of these challenges, but just please don't burn those bridges, right.
Speaker 2:All right. Last question for today and, kim, you kind of hinted at this Many of our listeners may have children who are age 15 to 17 year old right now. What advice would you give to these parents to better prepare them for this next phase of life?
Speaker 3:Yes, if you can go ahead now and start to have some conversations early about what the expectations are and also, I think, be sure and give them some comfort in that they are going to fall. They are going to make mistakes as parents. We are going to fall, we're going to make mistakes, but again, if the focus can be on that relationship, talk to your kids about what the expectations are and understand that any perceived control that you have had with your children is about to probably go away. And it's hard. It's hard but to prepare yourself some for that, because your kids, you don't need to know when they're this age, 18 and older. You don't need to know everything that they're doing. We think we do, but we really don't. But it's hard to move from one phase to the next, but it's doable.
Speaker 4:I agree with Kim, and I think it's important to share the conversations with your kids that tell them that, no matter what you do, no matter what decisions you make, choices you make, how frustrating the situation might be to me, I'm always going to love you, I'm always going to choose to have a relationship with you and we're always going to be a family. There's nothing that can change that, and I think that that's important to let them know, and I encourage lots of rare Josh, are you taking notes on this one I'm going to take?
Speaker 2:so many detailed notes on this.
Speaker 6:I have two 17-year-olds right now so this is all gravy for me. Well, it kind of goes back to what Kim said about the boundaries and about starting those conversations early. But this whole transition, as has already been said, it's a doozy. So lots of front-loading, right, don't wait. 15 to 17-year-olds start talking about that transition now.
Speaker 2:Well, thank you all for joining us today and make sure you come back next week. Until then, remember you might have to loan out your frontal lobes today. Just make sure you remember to get them back.
Speaker 1:Thank you for listening to Brain Based Parenting. We hope you enjoyed this show. If you would like more information about Cal Farley's Boys Ranch, are interested in employment, would like information about placing your child, or would like to help us help children by donating to our mission, please visit calfarleyorg. You can find us on all social media platforms by searching for Cal Farley's. Thank you for spending your time with us and have a blessed day.
