Grief Does Not End Quickly And Kids Need Us To Stay

Grief can make even confident parents feel helpless, because there isn’t a “right” thing to say that fixes what happened. We talk about how kids experience grief and loss, and why our first job is not solving the pain but staying connected through it. Along the way, we share personal stories that remind us grief is real whether it’s death, distance in relationships, miscarriage, a major life change, or even the losses adults are tempted to call “small.” 

We get practical about what helps children grieve in a healthy way: validating emotions without judgment, resisting the urge to rush a timeline, and understanding that a child’s grief can resurface months or years later as their brain develops and their meaning-making grows. We also talk about why adults often minimize grief to ease our own discomfort, and how that can shut down emotional growth and create long-term patterns kids carry into adulthood. 

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Transcript

Welcome And Show Purpose

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Welcome to Brain-Based Parenting, the Boys Ranch podcast for families. We all know how hard being a parent is, and sometimes it feels like there are no good answers to the difficult questions families have when their kids are struggling. Our goal each week will be to try and answer some of those tough questions, utilizing the knowledge, experience, and professional training Cal Farley's Boys Ranch has to offer. Now here is your host, Cal Farley's Staff Development Coordinator, Joshua Spronk.

SPEAKER_02 0:30

Hello and welcome. Today we're going to talk about a difficult but important topic: how to help our kids deal with grief and loss.

SPEAKER_01 0:35

To do that today, I'm joined by Chloe Hewitt, Youth Programs Administrator.

SPEAKER_05 0:38

Sam Cerna, Assistant Administrator of Residential Community. Adam Lyn, I'm a counselor here at Cal Farley's.

Personal Stories Of Loss

SPEAKER_02 0:44

All right, let's start off with our question of the day. Since we're talking about grief and loss, what's something that you've lost that you still think about from time to time?

SPEAKER_01 0:51

I thought about this question so much. I was just saying that before we started. But I feel like I have like lost getting to see my sister on a regular basis. So we live about eight hours away, and we had we got to live together for about a year when I moved back to Amarello. And then she was 19 and decided to move to Austin. And so since she was 19 and she's now 31, we have lived eight to nine hours away from each other. And so I grieve that a lot. And I grieve that now we both have kids and we live that far from each other. Oh, that's gonna make me tear up.

SPEAKER_05 1:20

Mine is a little strange. For my youth, I I my brother and I were uh we were trying to beat this video game. It was called Bad Dudes, and it was an old Nintendo game, and him and I would play it every day and every day, and one day it it just disappeared, and we didn't we didn't know what happened. And I I had considered that uh we had a memory that our uncle was around the house and he asked us, Hey, is this game pretty cool? And I said, Yeah, yeah, well that game's cool, right? And then it wasn't like too long after that game came up missing. And I I guess the whole point of this is that you know it it's not about the game for us, right? My my brother and I, uh you know, we never proved that. We just him and I talked about it and we're like, hey, in that the loss of the video game, although inconvenient, but the bigger the grief that happened in that moment was that you realize that sometimes your family is people you can't trust. So we couldn't figure out we had a very specific way we put our games and we just knew he did it. But of course, when you're a little kid, you you know you can't go accuse adults of things. But it it did teach us something, him and I, that hey, even your family can sometimes create you some pain.

SPEAKER_03 2:19

Well, I got permission from my wife to share this one. I remember the first time that she became pregnant, we had just so many different emotions. It was just this whole whirlwind, and that whirlwind lasted like a week, and then we ended up like in the hospital, and it was um it ended up being a lost, a lost child. So that sticks to me. I know it sticks with her too. Yeah, that's hard.

SPEAKER_01 2:40

That is a hard one. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 2:41

Yeah, mine seems trivial by comparison. In 1986, for Christmas, I got the coolest gift. It was the glow worm, which was like the gift of the year. And then I just I had it for like one week and I don't know what happened to it. It just completely, completely disappeared. And I think about it all the time that I had it and lost it, and still a little sad I don't have my glow worm.

SPEAKER_05 3:01

Yeah, I think it was cool. Yeah.

What Grief Really Is

SPEAKER_02 3:03

You have any shady uncle to me? A possible cousin. That's got the glow worm. Yes. I think it'd be helpful to start by defining grief. So, how would you guys just define grief?

SPEAKER_01 3:15

You know, I thought about this question also. How would I define grief? I think I define grief as heavy, as sadness, hurt. It may be confusing. So that's kind of not probably a certain definition, but that's kind of how I see grief.

SPEAKER_03 3:29

Yeah, that's how it feels. Yeah. Yeah, I think it's a deeply personal experience. I think it's a personal response to the loss of something that or someone that you once held close, and sometimes so close that you might not even have been able to imagine being without it.

How Adults Modeled Grief

SPEAKER_02 3:44

A few years ago, there was a Marvel TV show called WandaVision, and I I thought it just really eloquently defined it. It he said, What is grief but love enduring? And I just thought that that was kind of a good definition of grief is that we're just holding on to a love that we've lost, whether it be something physical or emotional or relational, but that love endures and we're we're sad about the loss of it. So when you were a kid, how did adults in your life handle grief and loss? Was it was it a home where it was okay to be sad, or were you expected to be strong and just move on?

SPEAKER_01 4:13

My parents were I was able to express any emotion to them. And they had a lot of open communication with us. I remember my grandma lived with us and basically was kind of a primary caretaker for me too, until she was five and she fell in the house when my parents were at work and I actually had to call 911. And I but I remember my dad coming, carrying her down the stairs, and and so I remember them still sitting me down and talking about that that it was okay to be sad, and she ended up having to go live with my aunt that didn't work that could take care of her every day. But they supported me through that and that lasted a long time.

SPEAKER_03 4:44

I remember being a kid and not really hearing very much about it. I knew that there there were some losses in in you know my life and my the life of my parents, but I don't remember them ever really like addressing it. It was just something that was there, but not really like talked about all that much.

SPEAKER_01 5:00

I remember it's funny. Now I remember with my my dog got ran over right in front of my elementary school, and I remember he had gotten out the night before, but I remember I didn't see him. My dad had saw the dog. And I remember that night, him digging the hole in the backyard and then us doing like a little funeral. And so I remember him being very honest about that, and he actually ended up telling me that that's where he found him and stuff. And so, yeah, I guess there was a lot of open communication the more I think about that. I didn't have a lot of grief and loss as a kid. Those were pretty much my two ones, but I remember them not being afraid to talk about it.

When Sadness Is Not Allowed

SPEAKER_05 5:30

My family is pretty open about grief and loss. I, you know, we obviously we go through the the ritual of the uh funeral and all that, but there was a lot of getting together, a lot of talking, you know, a lot of crying. You know, our family was so tight, and it was it was interesting because these are my my great grandmother's family when I was young, you know. So yeah, a lot of the old folks in our family were were passing, and and so I I I had to learn to get accustomed to what do we do when those things happen. We even had a like a I don't remember if it was a three-day or something, like a mourning period almost where you know we didn't understand it, but we couldn't watch TV, like we didn't hear the radio, you know, things like that. And you know, the adults just try to explain, hey, we're we're being respectful of the people we've lost, and so we have to give up a little something right now. And so I didn't really get it. I was a little kid, but uh you know, it was okay for us to cry and say things. I think I was I was too young to know these people all that well, maybe, but uh but I I could see my my family was in a whole lot of pain when those things were happening. So yeah, that's that was my experience.

SPEAKER_02 6:27

What do you think happens in families though, when it isn't okay to be sad? You're just told to get tough during grief times.

SPEAKER_01 6:33

I think you see them kind of recluse or maybe not know how to express sadness or grief. I would venture to say that my husband probably grew up a little bit in that household because at times it things are hard, sometimes he doesn't know quite how to express it, but I think it's because he wasn't really allowed to as a kid. And he will with me, but maybe not necessarily other people. And so I think that really you just see them go inward and not be able to express it or talk about it.

SPEAKER_03 6:57

Yeah, it seems like it would be pretty invalidating. Like I'm having all these big, huge feelings, but like the important people are in my life are telling me that I shouldn't be feeling them, I should just kind of get over it. It's gotta be kind of hard and confusing.

SPEAKER_01 7:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 7:10

Why is helping people with grief or loss so uncomfortable for us as adults, do you think?

SPEAKER_01 7:15

Well, I think that we love to be in control, Josh. And I would venture to say that when you're trying to support other people, you can't actually really do it because you can't take it for them. And so I've said this before. Sometimes you have to sit in the ugly with them, but it's very difficult to do because we want to solve, we want to help, but we also want to know what to do. And everybody's a little different in each situation. And I think that's the beauty of boys, right? I I say this all the time, but I think it's a beauty of what we do with the kids is sometimes we don't really do anything but just go meet them where they're at and just sit with them or walk with them, and maybe it's not even talking.

SPEAKER_05 7:49

You know, we all feel things different, you know. Like we all just said, we all have a different way we experienced it as children. And I think there's different things that happen in adulthood that creates things in us that just makes it different for all of us. And because of that, for for me, like I there's not a training for it. You know, I don't sometimes I don't even know what to do. Like, what do I tell this person? I feel for them. They're my friend or they're my family member and they're in pain. What if I say the wrong thing? What what if I don't really mean it, or and I'm just trying to console my friend because I didn't know the person that passed. You know what I mean? And so there isn't nobody that really teaches you how to what do I say to somebody who's in so much pain and it's not what you normally see them in, right? You they're usually whether it's a happy person or whatever, they're normal, they're just not in it right now. And that's like Chloe said, sometimes you just gotta sit with it and it it's super uncomfortable. And I I don't think even now in my late 40s, it's any better. It's hard.

SPEAKER_03 8:34

Yeah, it's hard. Yeah, Chloe mentioned wanting to have control. We just feel like we need to be kind of in control of the situation. And with grief, I mean, there are some losses that cannot be fixed. And so we're uncomfortable because like there sometimes just isn't really a solution other than just validation and time and love.

SPEAKER_02 8:52

Yeah, I think in Dr. Perry's book, What Happened to You, he talks about this where he said the reason that we're so uncomfortable with grief is like Chloe said, you we have control, but the reason we try and rush it is because we want to feel better.

SPEAKER_04 9:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 9:04

And it's not as much about that other person feeling better. And really the only thing that can help with grief is that time and space and validation, kind of like what you said. When you we can't rush it.

SPEAKER_01 9:14

Well, and I think not being afraid to show up, you know, I think what happens when we're angry, and I mean Adam would probably talk more to this too, and Josh and Sammy all jump in. But a lot of times when you're angry or sad, you you kind of isolate yourself. And so the main thing that they need is to feel someone come alongside them, even if but I always think it's amazing, even when you when my friends have babies, I don't usually want to sign them up for the meal train the first couple weeks, right? I want to go the month or two in when you're really starting to see the difficulty in breastfeeding, or and I want to show up then with the meal, or in six months when you're really starting to see because that's usually when you need someone to come sit with you. And it's the same way with grief. Usually people are really good about it at the beginning, but what about six months in when they're still having the nights that they're remembering that relationship or the loss of a baby? All the things that they need you to be present for. So I think it's the continual showing up even in the hard moments.

Grief Is Not Just Death

SPEAKER_03 10:05

That's such a good point. And into the future when it's it may be out of your mind, but it's probably not out of theirs. Yeah.

Stop Minimizing Kids’ Feelings

SPEAKER_05 10:11

Well, you guys were saying that a thought came to me that you know, grief isn't just about death, right? They could lose, you know, somebody could have been a runner and lose a leg or something. Griefs about other things too, a loss of something that was important to you, or maybe who you thought made you who you are. And like I said, like I so you can't if I had that hadn't happened to me, I don't know how I empathize, but it's like you guys are saying, hey, we just gotta be with them and let them know we we care. Because I remember when I I remember Josh probably remembers this. I was a runner and I was a 5k runner. I stepped in a hole and I got put in a boot for six weeks. I went to the doctor, they said, You gotta be in this boot for six weeks, you ain't running. In fact, you should have never run again. And that it was hard, it was heartbreaking, right? Um, I remember sitting in my car crying, like, what am I gonna do? Like, this is what I would do, this is my thing, right? And I was getting good at it, I had a goal and everything, right? And I think at this point, I could have I could have run after it just at that point, you know. I I don't think I'll ever get back to that that level again, you know, so that your mind just keeps going, right? And so no one else could ex understand that, you know, in my in my circle, really. I think my wife couldn't understand it. Like, why why am I sad? Whoa, you you don't understand. Like that that was the thing that made me me at that time, you know. And so it's not just about death either, right? Yeah, no, I think that's good.

SPEAKER_02 11:15

How much of what we say to grieving kids is actually about easing our discomfort instead of just helping them?

SPEAKER_01 11:21

I think all the time, and I think one of the things we're guilty of saying is, oh, I know how you feel because we're the adult and they're the kid and we have been through stuff, and so I think sometimes we're trying to just ease it or say, hey, that's part of life, but that's not actually what they need.

SPEAKER_05 11:35

It's gonna be okay, toughen up. You know, that none of that helps right now. Like and I do think when I when I try to console somebody, I yeah, I think it is a little bit about I'm uncomfortable and I'm trying to make it okay and make you know it's okay, but I don't even know if I'm doing the right thing or saying the right thing to you right now.

SPEAKER_03 11:52

Yeah, it's hard to sit in somebody else's pain.

SPEAKER_02 11:54

Like the house and so what does it look like to truly acknowledge a child's grief instead of minimizing it?

SPEAKER_03 12:00

I think one of the things to keep in mind is that there isn't really a wrong way to express it. One child grieving might look very, very different from another, or very, very different from your own. So I think acknowledging that it's hard without without portraying any kind of thought that it might be wrong.

SPEAKER_01 12:17

I love that because you could see the anger, or you could see just the tears, or you could hear see the screaming, or you see silence. So I think it's that's a beautiful thing to say because you ign you just meet them where they're at. But also just saying that must be really, really hard. Because I think the reality is they just need somebody to acknowledge that their feelings are valid and what they're feeling is difficult.

SPEAKER_03 12:37

For sure.

SPEAKER_02 12:37

Without judgment, without trying to change it. It's good. A lot of times we talk about the things of you know, like death and the serious things, but also kids grieve little things like Sam and I's toys, right? For us, those were real things that we were sad about the loss. But I could see myself now as an adult seeing myself and saying, it's just a glow worm, it's not that big of a deal, and not taking them seriously. But in doing that, I'm not really validating their grievance. That probably is going to shut down their emotional growth in the long term.

SPEAKER_05 13:03

Yeah, I think we just let them talk, you know, let them bend out because sometimes, you know, the strangest things come out of people's mouth and the questions, the the anger at God, why? I don't know, why them, why did they do that? You know, these questions come out that you have no no one knows nobody can answer. And like you guys said, and in fact, I feel like I'm learning today, right? Because we we're, you know, sometimes being quiet is okay and just letting them letting them do it and get through it.

SPEAKER_02 13:27

So you guys have kind of alluded to this already, but why is simple presence just and just being with a child often more powerful than having the correct or right words?

SPEAKER_01 13:36

I think you remember who shows up. So I think in my hardest moments, I remember who is gonna come and check on me. But it might not even be in that moment, but maybe they ask me a couple weeks. Sam is very good at this with us being partners. He frequently will say, How are you doing after a week or two of a hard situation? And he and I think it's that you noticing or you still being present, you remember who showed up. It but people remember what you made them feel and not what you say.

SPEAKER_05 14:01

Although I want want to be alone in my grief, right? Or I want to cry about myself sometimes. I don't really want to be alone. You know, all my family with me, you know, my friends, you know. It's whatever you're going through is tough, you know.

Explain Death With Clear Words

SPEAKER_03 14:12

So yeah. And I think the people that are willing to just sit with you and be present with you and allow you to feel that pain, those are the people that ultimately you might feel safe with. They they communicate that you can be safe, that you can be truly you, that there's nothing wrong with you. So, how do you explain grief to a child in a way that they can actually understand? So I I I think here that it's pretty important to use direct language. If somebody died, I I think personally that it's better to say this person died, rather than we lost them, or something like that. Because, you know, a child might get confused. They might they might hear those words, see your distress, not be willing to ask questions, but then in the back of my their mind think, well, let's go find her or something like that. So I think direct communication is hard, but ultimately maybe helpful.

SPEAKER_01 15:00

I think I think that's so true. I say this all the time that my kids can pick up on the slightest point. So if I'm having a hard day, my kids are usually the ones to like say, Hey mom, it seems like you're sad today, or hey mom, it seems like you had a hard day. And I could just say yeah and just blow it off. But I try to give them as much information as I can because I think if I can learn to express myself, then hopefully they can too later on. And so I think that I tell my kids that it's okay to be sad, and I think it's okay to feel hurt or confused by it. You know, we had a hard situation on campus last November, and I remember going home right before Thanksgiving, and I was real sad all of Thanksgiving. But I remember my son said, Hey mama, you're not the same tonight. And I said, No, baby, something really bad happened, and mommy's really sad about it, and gave him as much information as I could, but I could have just said, Yeah, but I don't want to talk about it. So I think you try to be as transparent as you can.

Common Parenting Mistakes In Grief

SPEAKER_05 15:48

I think you're right. You know, I remember, you know, we've all had loss, and when my kids were younger, you know when you have one, I think my goal was to let them know why I was gonna be different, like you said, right? You know, and I gotta tell them, you know, when when it's a especially if it's a family member, they know you have to obviously tell them. And I I think what you said is perfect. Yeah, there's no need to mince words. I need I need to be clear and I need you to understand why I'm gonna be sad today, right? Why I'm sorry, I you know, they they know because hey, we gotta go now, our life's gotta look different for a little while because we gotta do this, this, this, right, because we have to go pay our respects, whatever it is. They, you know, for me it's all about them knowing the plan, and so they can understand, hey, it's not about you guys right now. Um, you know, we're just we had a loss, and it's a big deal for us, right? So I think that's really fair for them.

SPEAKER_02 16:27

So, what are some of the most common mistakes parents make when trying to help a grieving child, even with they have gr good intentions?

SPEAKER_05 16:33

I think one thing I didn't like when I was a kid is is that one time I got kept away from one of them. I don't I don't even know why. We're just not going. And and I don't know if it was family conflict or what happened or that person. I don't have any idea.

SPEAKER_03 16:44

But from a funeral?

SPEAKER_05 16:45

Yeah, from a funeral, yeah. Like we're not going, right? And and I didn't I never understood it and I never asked. I was too young. And I think my family, you didn't just really ask it, you just got told me. You know, you just c you just got told, which was different, right? Because we always did it. So I thought that was kind of strange. And I, you know, I I never thought to just ask now. Maybe I can ask now as an adult and find out, but it was a reason, maybe something, you know, sometimes there's infighting within the family, things like that. I have no idea, but it I thought I don't think that was healthy because you know, I had a cousin that came from that line. So I I, you know, I hung out with my cousin all the time, and now I can't go to their their person's funeral. Like, you know, their parents' funeral, and I don't understand why. I think I don't think that's a great thing without an explanation, right?

SPEAKER_01 17:20

You know, I think it I think you that that I would agree with Sam. I think that maybe shielding them from it and your intention is good, but then it's also your child's loss. I thought about this recently when me and my sister spent some time together last week. I said, you know, I stress a little bit about if anything happens to my mom because my kids have such a close relationship with her that at some point, if anything happened, then I not only have to watch, I have to grieve, but then I have to also watch my children grieve and and walk that with them. And I think that's really hard as a parent because your kids probably grieving it and you're trying to shield them, but also sometimes they have to kind of walk through that and we have to walk through it with them.

SPEAKER_03 17:56

I think not being honest when you have the opportunity to be honest is I I can see how it like the intention is is there, the good intention is there, but um ultimately kind of makes things confusing.

SPEAKER_04 18:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 18:07

So why is rushing a child through grief one of the most harmful things that we can do? So everybody grieves at their own pace. There's no there's no like timeline where like six months later you're expected to be fine. That's just not realistic. And I think especially with children, as their brains continue to develop and become increasingly complex complex, so will their understanding of the loss. And so I don't I don't know that grief ever really ends, that it can be rushed at all. It's it's gonna happen.

SPEAKER_01 18:37

Well, and I think none of us want to be told, like, oh, just get over it. You know what I mean? Like we all sometimes need to work through it. And so I think if you tell them, hey, we're done with it or we need to get over this, then maybe they stop expressing other emotions with us too. So it could have a ripple effect from there on out.

Building A Home That Holds Grief

SPEAKER_05 18:53

And the ripple effect is what I was just thinking of. Like, you gotta remember generation generational trauma is a thing. And if what you're what you're telling your kids now is what they're may tell their kids later. And and right, hey, we gotta we gotta consider those things. And there's no rushing, and I think Adam hit it on the head that I mean everybody's going through a process. I mean, it's obvious that years ago this whatever I was talking about happened, and you still can think about it and feel that emotion, right? Does it ever really go? No. How are we learning to live? Yes. And you know, and so yeah, rushing them could have way detrimental effects on your family tree, even.

SPEAKER_02 19:24

How can parents create a home environment where it's safe for kids to feel and express their sense of grief and loss? Aaron Ross Powell, Jr.

SPEAKER_03 19:30

One of the things that comes to mind for me, if the loss, you know, especially if the loss involves a death, is to not hide symbols and reminders of the person. Yeah, that's good. It's easy to want to just kind of tuck it away and just because we don't want to sit in that pain. Yeah. But keep their photo on in the picture frame. I think that's helpful.

SPEAKER_05 19:48

We were house parents here for a little while, and this is probably not the same thing, but I I'll give you an example of what one time we did. Uh our girls found a little turtle and it died. They were all feeling away about it. And we're like, I don't even know how they're attached to this turtle. But to take them seriously, I went ahead and I said, Hey, why don't we why don't we go have a little funeral for the turtle? Would that make you guys feel better? Like, yeah. So in a way, like I I don't know at at that time how many of funerals these children had attended or anything like that. Certainly not with me. And so we went and did a little mock service in the back. You know, I had to go dig a little hole, and you know, we sat there and I let the girls pray, you know, over a little turtle that none of us knew. And but I I think it was a really bond good bonding moment for us, right? And it so what that told me was the world told them was hey, it's okay to be sad even if it's like even if I didn't think it was a big deal, they all collectively thought it was a big deal. I needed them to be okay with being sad and maybe give us some closure. We agreed to how we do that and we did it. I wonder if it's still like we have a little marker in the back and it's still behind that house, you know. Uh anyway, I I I and I wanted to express to them that hey, it's okay to be sad. They don't, they're still at that way. I had 13-year-olds and under, and they they're still figuring out emotion. And so it was actually very uh an honor for me to to help be able to teach young ladies who aren't mine how to how to deal with the next thing.

SPEAKER_03 20:58

It's so good. It reminds me of this bluey episode. I think it's called I think the episode is called copycat. We just watched it the other day. But one of the kids finds a dead bird or finds a bird and tries to care for it and it and it ends up dying. One of the things that the parents allowed the children to do at that time was to retell it in their own in their own way, kind of retell the story of the death. You know, again, just allowing them space to process it at their own at their own rate and with their own emotions.

SPEAKER_01 21:28

You know, I think even talking about your own grief, like I my kids, I said that before, love my mom so much. But then when my mom leaves, they're always like, I'm so sad that she's gone, and when will she come next? And I was like, Yes, it's so sad, like when that changes and we don't get to see them like we do. And so, you know, we talked about that before the show. Started grief can be such a variety of things, but also being allowing them the space to talk about when they are experiencing some sort of grief, or just when you are, or when you know, one of the things we do in our house when we all sit down to eat as a family, you know, I said that before, my husband's a fire. So I still sit down with my kids, but the four of us getting to sit down together is kind of not always it's usually like three times a week. But we do I go around and make us talk about how our day was, what was a good thing, what was a bad thing, and how did that make us feel? And so it drives my husband nuts because he's not a feely person. But all that to say is it's just opening up an opportunity for us to talk about how we're feeling.

SPEAKER_03 22:19

And so Yeah, so you're normalizing being able to express emotion.

SPEAKER_01 22:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 22:24

So what does long-term support look like and how do we walk through grief, not just in the moment, but over periods of time?

SPEAKER_03 22:30

One thing that came to mind for me here was how important it is to allow ourselves to experience grief. Because if we are not willing to allow ourselves to process it, especially over time, then we are not really in a position to help our kids.

SPEAKER_01 22:46

Yeah. I mean, I think that that looks like knowing when something hits and then allowing yourself space, but also allowing the kids space. Because we kind of like what we've said, the grief kind of might not end or it might go six months from now, and then they need more support. And so just continually meeting them where they're at.

SPEAKER_03 23:03

Yeah, allowing them to to express their grief and responding empathetically, you know, and openly, even if it's months or years later. Yeah. Just being there for them.

SPEAKER_02 23:12

I like what you said earlier, Chloe, about not being the first person to sign up for the meal train. But down the road, they're probably still gonna need that. And continuing to show up long term like that, I think is really cool and important too.

SPEAKER_01 23:22

Yeah, I mean, it's so funny. I don't ask for help well. Sam could probably tell you that. But when we moved off campus, my husband also doesn't ask for help well. And so I think Sam and Jackson came and helped me load the grill, and that was like the last thing that day before we left campus to move. But I we didn't call any of our friends. We moved in town, but two of my closest friends knew that we were gonna be there and they were sitting at our new house waiting to unload. And I remember Austin looking at me, my husband, and saying, Man, they're really good friends. Like we didn't even have to call them. And so it's not a grief moment, but it's a moment where like it was a milestone in our life, but I remember who showed up. And so I think that's really important for anything. But I guess it is kind of grief because it was sad leaving campus, like moving from campus. And so I think that there is some validity to that.

SPEAKER_03 24:06

And I think, you know, as time passes and that acute feeling of grief diminishes a little bit, it's okay to remember the good times too. Yeah. And to, you know, to not narrow down a person's life to the fact that it's ended, but to kind of celebrate like how amazing it was and like why why the loss was so impactful in the first place. Yeah. And that can be done over time as a way to help support kids in each other.

SPEAKER_02 24:31

What role does modeling play in how important it is for kids to see their parents handle grief in a healthy way?

SPEAKER_03 24:36

One of the things that modeling does is to normalize the experience, validate them. There, if they have difficult feelings like anger or sadness or or whatever it may be, to see you also have those feelings makes them, might make them feel a little bit more understanding of themselves.

SPEAKER_01 24:53

And not afraid to like talk about it. But it made me think about my daughter has one of her best friends and she's four, but his dad passed away. I remember the day we got in the car and she decided to tell me that. And she said, Hey, he told me today that he doesn't have a dad anymore. And I said, Wow, that's that's really big for him to tell you that. And she said, Yeah, he only trusted me, mom, but we're gonna pray for him tonight. And I remember thinking, she said, because that makes me sad that he doesn't have that he doesn't have him anymore. And I said, Yeah. And I think what a beautiful friend you are, that he felt safe enough to tell you that. And so I just I think that that is also modeling it, that when they're in a hard time and they're telling you about it, like the way you even respond to that, because they're gonna have to probably hold other people's grief with as they're growing up. And so for us to show them how to sit with the other people is also a really important role, too.

SPEAKER_03 25:42

That's such a good point. Yeah. I love that.

SPEAKER_05 25:44

Yeah, and I think, I mean, like I like we all have said, I think our forefathers have helped us learn how to deal with this. And yeah, that's how I know what to do. I mean, so uh when I saw people crying, I'm like, well, I don't understand why right now. And then some somebody said it when our thoughts got more complex. Now I get it, and I'm joining in, right? And it's and it it's so sad. And I also like what you guys said about the you know, going around and telling stories, you know. One of the things that we our family did well is, you know, there's always some get together, especially after a funeral. And that's what we're doing. We're talking about them, right? And when I was a kid, I'd see my uncles talking about the person. And the cool thing is we get to be included. Like we don't know anything, but we at least get to be, they're not running us off. We get to be, and I one of the biggest memories I had is walking by one of my uncles, and he's like, Come here, Rijo. And then he gets me on, he puts me on his lap, and they're all just talking to them, the men, just talking. And I get to be one of the guys, right? And now I see that. So guess what my our generation does now, right? Our kids are around, and our our our little nephews and nieces are so when we're all talking about the family member, and we're we're celebrating them. Hey, we're we are sad. We already did our crying now. But then we're we've moved on to the next phase where we're gonna just talk about it, have fun, and and teach the young how to how to move forward and and things like that and be with them. And that's the important part, right? Is having our having our family together and having us all know that we're there to support each other because one of us has probably felt the loss more than the others. But here we all are, right? And the young get to see that from all of us. And they also get to know it's it's just okay. Like, you know, I I've seen grown men cry that I thought never did that. I remember when I was a house parent. I'm sorry, I can I tell one more, right? Uh I was a house parent, and Josh knows this well. I had to I had to send a little girl that I'd raised for seven years, I had to move her up to the different house. Boy, did that hurt. It was so painful. I mean, so painful. And my wife had to go cry, which she didn't ever openly admit to do, but she went to the apartment and I'm I'm I'm having to supervise all the all the other little girls that we had, and I can't stop. I just cry and I'm sitting on the couch crying. And all the little girls come around and and like, hey, Mr. Santa, you're really sad. And I say, Yeah, I'm I'm really sad. And I didn't know I was gonna have that response. Her and I cried when I dropped her off, and I came home and cried more. And it just the the the kids were like they were dumbfounded. They'd never seen this from me, possibly any house parent. I don't actually know. Most of those kids, I think I had them all since they got here. And so, yeah, just hey, I'm just telling them, hey girls, I'm just sad. Hey, this is gonna be okay. I'm I'm gonna be here all day. We're gonna we're gonna finish the day, but yeah, I'm I'm sad today. And one of them asked me, Are you gonna be sad when I go? I think I will. I I'm pretty sure I will, you know. And you know, it was kind of a cool moment at this mac mixed in with a sad moment, you know. So, like I said, they they it's okay for us to m to see it and then us uh teach them, even if it's by accident.

SPEAKER_01 28:24

Well, and I think it's so it's so good. I that reminded me of recently I went to go see my old house parents that I caseworked for. Bob had passed away a couple of years ago, and it was a hard loss for me. But we went to the funeral, but I hadn't really been to see my house mom for a long time. So she leaves me this voicemail, and if I'm honest, I couldn't even play it because I knew it would make me cry because it said, you know, now that Bob's left, you just don't care about me anymore. You haven't, you don't love me, you haven't come to see. And I like, you know, now like the iPhones tell you the description before you listen, and I was like, I can't listen to that, I'll start crying. But I called her and I said, Hey, you're right. But also you could just ask me the in the correct way to come see you. But she was right. And if I was honest, maybe I was avoiding, you know, it was hard for me and it was hard for me, but I I love her to pieces, and so I actually took so it comes up to the modeling because I actually took my four-year-old with me to go visit her for three hours the other weekend. And so then she told me she's painting and all these things, and so it was also kind of closure for me to see that she is kind of taken up some hobbies um since then. And so that's another way is I think sometimes it's even staying in contact with maybe the other person that is in that if it's a loss.

SPEAKER_02 29:31

Well, thank you so much for joining us today. If you'd like to contact us or ask us a question, our email is podcast at calfarley.org. I'll leave a link in the description. And as always, you might have to loan out your cortex today. Just make sure you remember and get it back.

SPEAKER_00 29:44

Thank you for listening to Brain Based Parenting. We hope you enjoyed this show. If you would like more information about CalFarley's Boys Ranch, are interested in employment, would like information about placing your child, or would like to help us help children by donating to our mission, please visit calfarley.org. You can find us on all social media platforms by searching for CalFarley's. Thank you for spending your time with us and have a blessed day.