Teaching Kids Repentance: The Spiritual Disciplines pt 3

Repentance can sound like a harsh word, especially when you’re parenting a child who already carries shame. We reframe it as metanoia, a change of mind and heart that moves your family from self-defeating patterns toward real flourishing. Along the way, we talk about why kids don’t just need “better behavior,” they need a safe relationship with caring adults and a clearer picture of what God is actually like.

We talk about what healthy repentance looks like for kids: awareness, confession, making repairs, and growing empathy. We get concrete about parenting skills that support honesty, like responding instead of reacting, avoiding catastrophizing, and making amends when we overreact. We also dig into the difference between a quick “I’m sorry” script and a real apology that names the harm, takes ownership, and respects that forgiveness can’t be demanded.

Then we shift to fasting and sacrifice in a way that fits real family life. We explain fasting as giving something up to depend on God and give Him your full attention, and we explore age-appropriate options like screen fasts, shared prayer, and simple Sabbath rhythms that don’t turn into a performance. If you’re looking for Christian parenting guidance that blends spiritual formation with practical, relationship-centered tools, this conversation is for you.

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Transcript

Welcome And The Hardest Thing To Quit

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Welcome to Brain-Based Parenting, the Boys Ranch podcast for families. We all know how hard being a parent is, and sometimes it feels like there are no good answers to the difficult questions families have when their kids are struggling. Our goal each week will be to try and answer some of those tough questions, utilizing the knowledge, experience, and professional training Cal Farley's Boys Ranch has to offer. Now here is your host, Cal Farley Staff Development Coordinator, Joshua Sprock.

SPEAKER_05 0:30

Hello and welcome. Today we're going to finish off our series on how to teach our kids the spiritual disciplines, focusing today on repentance, fasting, and heart change. To do that today, I'm joined by Austin Garmin, Music Director.

SPEAKER_01 0:41

I'm Mike Wilhelm, Director of Faith-Based Outreach.

SPEAKER_02 0:43

Marley Newt, Director of Christian Education.

SPEAKER_05 0:48

All right, let's start off with our question of the day. If you had to give something up for the day or week, what would be the hardest thing for you to not partake in? Gotta be the cell phone for me.

SPEAKER_04 0:58

I would have to say food. I love snacks.

SPEAKER_01 1:01

I would say chocolate. It'd probably be that first cup of coffee in the morning. Yeah, that'd be a tough one to give up. I can give up all the rest. It's that first. I'm right with you.

SPEAKER_05 1:09

If I don't have my first cup of coffee in the morning, it's it's the day, just might as well not even go. It's not gonna go good for me or anyone else, that's for sure. All right, so this topic I think can be a little intimidating. So

Repentance As Metanoia And Renewal

SPEAKER_05 1:20

to start, what is repentance and why does it matter for our kids?

SPEAKER_01 1:24

Okay, I guess I'll take the bait and weigh in on this. And it's a such a great word. It's too bad that it has it's taken on a lot of negative baggage. And and and that was a lot of that was due to translation issues through the years coming to English. The repentance, and even the middle of the word is P-E-N-P, where we get things like penalty, penalize, penitentiary, penalty box, and all of that has a lot of negative connotation. That's not a very faithful translation of the biblical word is metanoia for reasons that I'm sure nobody in this room nor the listeners would care to hear about. It did get translated this way, and it's probably an unfortunate translation. Repentance is a wonderful thing, and what it is, it's this turning from self-defeating ways to real life, real flourishing. So it's a good thing, and and it does have some sting to it, so a bit of it perhaps, but it it's a wonderful thing, and we tend to think of it as a where we really want to beat ourselves up or beat somebody else up with the word and weaponize it. But it's it's turning from self-defeating ways to real flourishing, the way that God wanted us to wants us to live.

SPEAKER_04 2:35

I think that's exactly right. I think the biggest thing with what Mike said is that it's an action word. We have to choose repentance and then we have to act upon it.

SPEAKER_06 2:44

Yeah, to add to that, when I think about repentance, I think of it almost like a heart transformation. Like it's the Holy Spirit doing the work in your heart, trying to sanctify, trying to sanctify your soul, really try to make you more set apart from the world. And it's not a bad thing, or it shouldn't have a negative connotation like Mike was saying, but but repentance is actually, I think, something that God wants for us because it helps us resemble Christ more, to be the hands and feet of Jesus better, helps us to become more holy when we do repent and turn away from our sin.

SPEAKER_01 3:15

Yeah, and and a nice way to think about this. If you want to you get to the the word in the Bible that the the original word is metanoia, then that's the Greek. And that's you'll notice that it's very similar to a word that you know listeners might be familiar with, metamorphosis. That's always the cool thing that happens when caterpillars turn to butterflies, right? And that's a beautiful, wonderful thing, and it's it is a it's the same organism, and yet it is completely new. And it's not just modified, it's changed, you know, every way from the inside out. Metanoia rather than change of body, it's change of mind. So if you can think about that butterfly, but it is this change of soul from you know from the inside out with the way that we would imagine things and and the way that we would think about things and the way that we would choose to act. It's it's not just a behavior modification, it is really just this transformational change. It's beautiful, it looks good on people.

SPEAKER_06 4:09

Yeah, I think that's really good description. And I think about even my own life, or maybe I felt God calling me to repent for a sin. It's really a freeing process when you do take part in that and when you do open your heart, your mind, and really your soul to God and give it all to Him. It's not something that someone should be hitting you on the back of your head with a ruler stick, like saying, You need to turn your ways. But when Christ initiates that sanctification in you and leads you towards repentance, it's really freeing and it's it's a beautiful process when you allow Christ to do the work inside of

Teaching Kids Repentance Without Shame

SPEAKER_06 4:41

you.

SPEAKER_05 4:41

All right, since our topic is the spiritual disciplines, what does healthy repentance look like for a child and how do we start to teach that?

SPEAKER_04 4:48

I think healthy repentance starts with just a recognizing and an awareness of I need to turn my ways and my thinking and my heart from not being so selfish and turn it to God's ways. And then I think after that comes the confession piece and apologizing, and then I think even more than that is just the act of willingness to change and seek for God's help and also seek for people to help you and push you along in that process too.

SPEAKER_02 5:15

I think it's helpful in that process. Marley just mentioned that the child does not feel shame by the adult or whoever it is. And I also think of you know as as the repentance being a regret or being sorry for a past wrongdoing or something, and then in those processes of acknowledging that, confessing that, and then and then being forgiven. And I think for the forgiveness is the is a spiritual power that we get from just that's what Jesus does is forgive. And I but I not shaming is is key to that and and encouraging that and having them be accountable for what they're repenting and talking them through it.

SPEAKER_01 5:53

You know, boy, I appreciate what Marley and Kate said, and that that moral change, that conscious moral change is a big part of repentance, and it's the obvious part, and it's the part that we'll usually address. But there's also passive things that happen that are part of repentance and that aren't even necessarily things that maybe the child themselves is realizing, oh, now I'm doing the right thing rather than the wrong thing. And here's an example. I remember there was some years ago we had a an intern at the chapel that was would take a there was a kid and they took that child to headquarters for a treat after school. And that that child was kind of new here. And instantly that child learned, and this was, you know, just part of this mode of operation, would find ways to get to headquarters for a treat with that intern and just use that intern. And the intern knew what was going on, right? It was, you know, it wasn't, yeah. So you know, so the kid was just using and and that intern was just an really just an object to that child, really didn't see that that intern as a human. And this loving intern just continued to try to meet the child where the child was, kind of way out, sometimes say no, and not always just let the child manipulate, just stayed the course and kept trying to love, faithfully love that child. And by the end of the year, that that child, this was a kind of a pre-adolescent child, they get to the headquarters, and that child looks at that intern and says, You must have had a long day. Said, I want you to have my ice cream. And okay, to that's not gonna make the newspaper headlines, but for those of us who work with kids, it was huge. And that intern knew it. And what was what had happened there, that child didn't consciously think, oh, I've been bad. Now I need to repent and do good. That wasn't even in the field of awareness yet. It was just simply there was this awakening to more, and that is part of repentance. So I'd want listeners to know, don't, don't just limit repentance to this moral choice and feeling sorry for having done a bad thing, and now I'm gonna apologize and and do the right thing next time. That could really just be nothing more than behavior modification sometimes. If there's if the stakes are high and there's consequences and rewards attached to it, people can learn to navigate that without repenting, right? So, at any rate, there's there's some beautiful things that happen before even it comes right to to the will and conscious awareness where you're starting to awaken to just realizing, hey, these these other humans in the room are real beings, you know, and and just start to you know treat that with respect.

SPEAKER_05 8:36

That actually ties to the next question really

Heart Change Over Rule Keeping

SPEAKER_05 8:39

well. Why is it important for kids to learn that following God isn't just about doing the right things, but it's also about what's going on in their heart?

SPEAKER_06 8:45

I think it's important for kids to know it's more of a heart issue than more of a rule issue. And because for a kiddo, we know as Christians that there is no condemnation for those that are in Christ Jesus. And with that, there's an openness and can't think of the word maybe liberty, freedom, that you can go to Christ with those things. And as a parent, or really any guardian figure, if you're teaching your kid that it's about doing the right things, you can end up becoming like a Pharisee. And that's not what Christ wants out of us as leaders, as parents, as guardians, as even coaches, when when trying to help with the spiritual development of a kid. But really, I mean that that was a big part of Christ's ministry was trying to get to the heart of things. And yeah, there's you st there still are moral standards that you want to follow, but the the bigger picture that Christ is trying to get at is looking at the heart and really getting to that point.

SPEAKER_04 9:40

I think it's just important to remember that God wants to have a relationship with us. I mean, all this is about having a personal relationship with Jesus and just remembering that God is a loving God, and like Austin was saying, He does discipline. There is going to be consequences for our actions, but even more than that, he wants a relationship with us.

SPEAKER_02 10:00

I think some of that goes back to what Mike was talking to too just a minute ago. And you know, just doing what what's the reason I'm doing the right thing? And it's not always for the right reason. But I think just teaching, they're learning about self-awareness, you know, or self-discipline, that kind of thing. That's what's growing in their hearts, and then that's you know, doing it for God just is gonna follow after that, I think, as they kind of develop into that and see that model by people around them.

SPEAKER_01 10:26

That that's a good point, Kate. And that that model of people around them, that that's another big piece on this repentance thing of metanoia, of change of mind, is we we think it's you know, we just limit it so much and think it's about making bad moral choices and then okay, I need to make good moral choices. But uh when Jesus came and he said, Repent for the kingdom of God is at hand, he he announced that to all all Israel. And I'm gonna say that not everybody crashes into in the gospels were making lousy moral choices. They were not there, they were not, none of us are perfect and say that we haven't done anything wrong, but a lot of folks needed to think differently about what God is like. Kids that come, say, to our care here at Boys Ranch, some that might come from unfortunate circumstances where they haven't had the maybe the mod role models in their lives to help them imagine that God might be protective and good, and maybe they think God is as punitive or distant or just absent altogether. Well, they need to repent of that, but that's not something that you think, oh, I'm bad, and now I need to, okay, think differently. It's got to happen through living in a community of grace, of people that embody that, and then suddenly their minds start to wake up to the idea that, oh, wait, one, maybe some people people are different than I thought, and there are some people that are really agents of grace, and then maybe God's different than what I thought. That is all a process of repentance, and it doesn't necessarily have that real obvious moral connection, but it does lead to the right moral choices. Does that make sense? So that's one of the beautiful things about I just love about you know Boys Ranch, and I'm not, I know we're not doing a promo about Boys Ranch, but no, it's a community of grace. We're not, you know, not you know, rough around the edges and not perfect, but there is a it's a community of grace where kids can start to reimagine what people might be like, what the world might be like, and then what God might be like, and all that's part of this whole subject of repentance.

SPEAKER_05 12:23

How can parents

Helping Kids Admit Mistakes Safely

SPEAKER_05 12:24

teach their kids to be honest about their mistakes without feeling that shame or fear?

SPEAKER_02 12:28

I think not reacting, responding rather than reacting. And sometimes in that moment it's it can be difficult depending on what the mistake may have been. My daughter, one time, she drove my car, she didn't have her license, but she backed up the car at a very fast rate and smashed my neighbor's front of the van and didn't tell anybody, even except her sister. And then I found the indentation of the license plate on the bumper of my car, and I thought someone had hit me. And she all of a sudden got a little nervous because I was talking about calling the police to find out whose license plate that was that hit me. And she came to me, and the first thing she said was, If I tell you something, will you promise not to ground me? So she ended up telling me what she had done, but and she didn't get grounded, but she had to go and tell my neighbor that she hit his that she hit his van.

SPEAKER_01 13:16

The one thing I'm thinking of here, a couple things. One, all of this, and and Marley, you know, talked about the importance of relationship when we're talking about God, you know, that it's it's about relationship, not about rule keeping. But the same with with parenting, there has to be, I'm gonna have to have done made the investment, time and attention for disc eye to eye, voice-to-voice, heart-to-heart discussion with my child to where it's got safety and warmth, uh our relationship does, so that whenever this thing happens, you know, about you know, maybe they're gonna have to fess up for you know some something, you know, they broke the neighbor's window or whatever they did, you know, whatever they did. Well, they're able to, they're able to trust that they can share that. And uh, and then as they do it, I need to make sure, like Kate said, I'm I'm responsive and not reactive. Uh so I need to do a little check-in, take a deep breath. Sometimes even maybe even find a little bit of playfulness in the thing. If if it's uh and that's not to make light of, sometimes there's some serious things that nothing to laugh about, right? But it's sure gonna take that investment that of of um having those conversations, those safe conversations where we're close, right? And and they can share. If I'm just trying to, if I'm not making those investments and whenever uh this awful thing happens, it's gonna be tough. We're just not gonna have enough in the made enough of those deposits of love deposits, you know, to be able to hold that, don't you think?

SPEAKER_04 14:45

Yeah, I think I mean I'm not a parent, but speaking from like a kid's perspective, I think there has to be a level of trust kind of goes along with relationship. If there's not the trust, you're not going to want to tell someone something. And I think from the parents, it's like if a kid is coming to you with something that is that they have done wrong and they know they've done wrong, to maybe not initially get upset and angry, and especially not to blame, but for the kids to realize like it's okay to make mistakes that we all mess up, even your parents aren't perfect. Think just making that known to the kids is important.

SPEAKER_01 15:18

Another thing that's good in any of these di sensitive conversations, Josh, you've done a lot so many great podcasts, but to not catastrophize, right? Was that a proper word? Would you say no?

SPEAKER_05 15:29

Oh, yeah, definitely.

SPEAKER_01 15:30

Yeah, tell us about that. What why that just doesn't help.

SPEAKER_05 15:32

Yeah, sometimes we always go to worst-case scenario when we hear shocking things. It's that natural response. And I think it's okay to have a natural response. I mean, you can't always control that, but repairing that after you have that response, it's like, all right, I was upset, but now this is where what we need to do to kind of work the problem out, figure it out, and where do we go from here? And I think it's also important to let the kid know when you do have those big responses that you were wrong, you're sorry about it, and we're gonna make things right. But yeah, being prepared for those things that happen and not overblowing them, I think is gonna be something that'll be really helpful to keep let the kid come to you. I think it's also important when time when kids are doing just little things to not overblow it because that's kind of setting the pattern that they're going to have when they want to come to the big things. If you don't if you're if you get upset and have over responsive meltdowns over you know a kid spilling their milk, then they're definitely not gonna come to you when they run into their neighbor's car.

SPEAKER_02 16:23

Preparing that way, I think, is in I like that you said that, Josh, because it's easy for me to sit here tell say how calm to be and how to respond and all that. But in the moment of being a parent with everything going on, and then to have something show up like that, it wasn't always easy for me to remember. But the fact that I knew I could go back and make an amends, or I could say, Oh wow, I overacted, or I, you know, let's talk about this again. I'm sorry I did that. So I think that's important to remember that, you know, we mess up too and we can we can make it right.

SPEAKER_06 16:54

So go off what you're saying, Kate. Like even for parents to be open about their own mistakes will go a long way for the child because if they see a parent make mistakes or knowing they've made past mistakes, but aren't open to even talking about it, the kid isn't gonna want to open up at all. So creating that environment, it's gonna have it's gonna take time to do that, to create a safe place through through time, through cycles, through opening up and just being transparent will uh will create that safe place for a child to to not feel shame or fear when trying to open up open up about their mistakes.

SPEAKER_05 17:28

Yeah, a good risk person won't sell something they're not willing to buy themselves first. And so we have to make sure that we're willing to, as the adults, go first and model the behavior we want to see.

SPEAKER_02 17:39

Do you think accountability is a is helpful for this, for them being honest about their mistakes, like having kids be accountable for things and then so when they do make a mistake that they they know they made a mistake and they they want to make it right, is I mean that I feel like needs to go along with it. Like can't have a time where you're they're not being held accountable for anything and then expect them to admit a mistake.

SPEAKER_04 18:03

I think parents need to have expectations for their kids, but alongside the high expectations is to have grace and love with the high expectations and the kids to understand that you have both of those things for them.

SPEAKER_05 18:16

So, what might

Apology, Forgiveness, And Being Unstuck

SPEAKER_05 18:17

be the difference between a child saying sorry, I'm sorry, you know, every time they they're in trouble to actually truly understanding what sorry means and forgiveness.

SPEAKER_02 18:25

I think that goes back to Mike talking before about that the moral part of it. Like you always tell the kid, go say you're sorry, go say you're go tell them you're sorry, and then they do it because it's they're supposed to do it, but they don't really know why they're they're not truly understanding forgiveness.

SPEAKER_01 18:41

It's uh boy, that's there's I have found that there are a lot of adults that have a really poor understanding of forgiveness. It's just maybe not well taught, and our maybe our our churches are at fault. Pulpits haven't really taught it very well. Insured struggle for kids to understand it, and that you know, no one owes me their forgiveness, and all all I have the agency to do is to apologize. And I do that out of respect and knowing it's the right thing to do, and it is a part of a repentance if I if I you know if I did something to hurt or offend somebody, to own it, apologize. And I you'd like to think that the grace of that would help that person be able to forgive, not for my sake, but for their sake, so they're not stuck, right? And that's forgiveness is about being unstuck. So I don't even like that I'm sorry thing. And I sometimes when I talk to adults that are having some relationship problems, that saying I'm sorry, it kind of puts the attention on me and how I'm feeling and that sort of thing. And I think there's more power in saying I want to apologize for, and there's an action to that, there's some ownership to that, instead of just I'm sorry, I'm sorry. And after a while, especially if a relationship's really stuck, nobody's everybody can get tired of hearing that I'm sorry script all the time. But I want to apologize for, and then you fill in the blank, you know, and say it. So that's I think that would be helpful even to teach a child that, you know, uh own it, you know, identify it, own it, and then name it. I want to apologize for, bam. And then let your child know that that does not entitle you to their forgiveness. Okay, that's their business, but you need to take care of your business and apologize. Like Kate, like you said, we it's it's not a bad thing, probably, but go tell them I'm sorry you're sorry. And we by rote, child might go do that, whether they really want to or not. And I don't know. Do y'all think that that still might be some a good teaching in that, even if it is just going through the motions?

SPEAKER_02 20:36

That's a I think it's a good foundation. I think it's a good you know, just to get in the habit of knowing that that's part of making a mistake, whether you understand what you're doing or not. And then eventually you learn. And I think too, and going back to repentance, I think you know, saying sorry, I'm sorry, for and then doing the same thing again and then saying I'm sorry again, it's like, no, you're not. Like change your behavior. If you're truly sorry sorry, you won't do that again.

SPEAKER_06 21:01

Yeah, I feel like saying I'm s I'm sorry is a cheap way out of true forgiveness, what you guys are trying to make a greater point too. But but actually, like Mike said, say I apologize for, and then that that takes action because then you actually gotta do something. Like you can say I'm sorry, but we could anyone can do that, and it doesn't really mean anything in a way it feels almost self-centered because then you're making it about I mean you're literally saying I'm and then it's bringing it onto oh what you did, and and then you're not really getting to the point of the actual apology itself.

SPEAKER_01 21:33

Yeah, and I think that like Kate said, to just to start with the little one in the habit of saying I'm sorry, that's a good place to start, and you could build out from there. But I think as we as we ripen and get older, it's probably nice to transition out of that because it really, yeah, for an adult to just keep saying I'm sorry, especially, that it just kind of gets cheap and it's a little bit more self centered about me rather than trying to extend some some kind of re redeeming thing here that might help the person get unstopped. Duck from from the offense.

SPEAKER_04 22:01

I think true forgiveness was hard for me to understand, honestly, until my recent years. I think because when I would mess up, even in I know this is talking about kids, but like in your adult years, it's like I would say sorry and it would come so quick off of my tongue. But then it's like, why do I keep messing up and doing the same thing? And it would I would feel so much guilt and shame from that. It's like true forgiveness is letting go of that guilt and letting go of that shame and realizing that we have freedom in Christ. And I think that's what true forgiveness is all about.

SPEAKER_05 22:31

So

Building A Safe Home Culture

SPEAKER_05 22:32

how can families create a home environment where it feels safe to admit mistakes and ask for forgiveness?

SPEAKER_01 22:37

Yeah, this goes back to what I said earlier about just it it is really you need we need to be proactive about that. Our kids are going to make mistakes sometimes. And sometimes they might really blow it and it might be something really disappointing and ugly. So don't wait and have just an a real anemic relationship. And then when that hit when that happens, you're not gonna make up for all that time, all that investment dialogue of safe dialogue to where there's a trusting, warm relationship. You're not gonna be able to, it just you won't have it. Start now and make sure that you're being intentional. Here's what I would say you want to do something really practical. Just we talked about this in other podcasts, protect a family meal time uh in the evening where you sit around face to face and have a meal together. Just that in and of itself will do so much. And with phones off, that'll do so much for just having the trust level, the warmth, the safety necessary for whenever you hit one of these big whopper things. Okay, you're we're able to, you know, be present together and the child's feeling safe enough to share, admit their mistake, ask for forgiveness.

SPEAKER_02 23:43

I think adults willing to admit mistakes and to their kids even is is very powerful too. Say, hey, I I'm really sorry that you know I did this, I messed up, like I'm gonna try different, you know. Just I think an example of the parent or the adult in the family.

SPEAKER_01 23:59

Yep. I I appreciate you saying you've mentioned that a couple times. That I think that's awesome. I think that needs to always be part of that whenever there's this um heart to heart when when uh things have gone bad. And like I said, sometimes they might be our our pre-adolescent doing a naughty thing they shouldn't have done, and it needs to be addressed, needs to be corrected, but it if the stakes aren't all that high, whatever it was. Sometimes with our middle schoolers and teens, the stakes get high and there could be some really, really bad things that happen. But if we could not catastrophize and if we have that investment in that relationship where it's a safe place to be honest, and if we could work through those things and then close out, hey, I'm gonna tell you two things that are true. One, I've made mistakes too, and two, we are gonna get through this together. And I I like closing it with a we statement so it's not it's not so isolating and it like this relationship might seem strained. It's like what you know, I like the you know, bring that thing to a close. Hey, we're gonna get through this together.

SPEAKER_04 24:58

I think it all comes back to the trust in relationships, but maybe the parents in the room can speak to this. But I think for a parent, it has to be kind of a good balance of like gentleness, being loving with grace while also still being firm and having those expectations and still, even when your kids mess up, still having consequences in place. Because I think consequences can be a really good teaching tool to just teach forgiveness.

SPEAKER_01 25:24

For those uh listeners and that have read Karen Purvis, her connected child, and if you haven't, I highly recommend it. It'd be one of the a short list of books that I really would recommend for everyone to read, very accessible read. She makes a nice contrast between authoritarian, authoritative, meaning authoritarian is where you're, you know, kind of a toxic tyrant, right? And that that doesn't do anything for a relationship, it doesn't do anything to help a kid, you know, experience real metanoia. It might help them be compliant when you're in eye shot and that kind of thing and sneaky. But authoritarian means, you know, I'm the boss, but it's in relationship. And so authoritarian is not permissive. And back to Marley's point, some people might mistake, you know, some some of what we might suggest here sounding permissive, and not not at all. That would that would not be loving a child well to be permissive. So we're gonna address these things and do so from a being authoritative. The child will feel safer if I'm acting like a parent and not like a pushover or a you know, or a kid. They're gonna feel safer, but not to be that toxic tyrant that's authoritarian, right? Does that sound about right? You're the purpose out of the state.

SPEAKER_05 26:34

Oh, yeah, you should say that high structure, high nurture is the authoritative where you give lots of. You do have to have respect, you do have to have structure and rules and boundaries and all that, but at the same time, you have to have the nurture that goes along with it. And in doing so, that's what makes the lesson stick. All right, so let's move on to the next spiritual discipline. We're gonna talk

Fasting Explained For Families

SPEAKER_05 26:52

about fasting and sacrifice. So fasting, I know, can feel like a pretty big concept. So, how would you explain it in a simple way that kids would understand?

SPEAKER_04 27:00

I think in the simplest way I can put it is that fasting is giving something up for a certain amount of time in order to fully depend on God and to give God your full attention.

SPEAKER_05 27:11

At what age, if any, should kids begin to learn about fasting and what might that look like in a healthy, age-appropriate way?

SPEAKER_01 27:17

Aaron Powell I I really I just don't think I'm really the expert that probably should weigh in on this, other than here's what it's always safe to say to be having that discussion and that teaching, whether you're inviting the child into the practice or not. I do know I just know different families that sometimes they they will uh when the children are in high school during a a certain time for a certain thing, they might fast together and and forego a meal and they have devotional and or focused prayer attention around that fast that they practice together. I think with pre-adolescence, you know, might be something that that we would talk about if I'm doing it as a parent so that they know what I'm doing. But I think that's a lot for them for a pre-adolescent, and I'm I'm just not sure that I would invite them into the practice of fasting until they were at least in middle school or to high school. That's that is just my opinion, and that's nothing very scientific about that. Maybe some of you have some ideas about what Kate, what about what do you think about that?

SPEAKER_02 28:16

Well, I'm just wondering if fasting always has to refer to food. Or can it be a simple pleasure or something that well we're not gonna do a movie every night of the week, or we're not gonna have TV time, or we're not gonna have, you know, you're gonna be off your tablet for you know what I mean? Like it's it's a self-discipline and a self-control kind of thing, in my thinking, you know, that you're and you're doing it, you know, for for your own improvement and to grow closer to God. But it's not so I'm not not always thinking it's always about food.

SPEAKER_06 28:47

I think that's a good point. Cause I feel like with this question too, I don't think there's necessarily a certain age that you should just like start teaching a kid about fasting. I think it probably comes with wisdom and discernment and even looking at your own child and seeing like what does their walk with God look like? And then maybe like what Mike was saying, once they're in middle school or even high school, then what if you're already practicing fasting, then invite them in. Or if they're younger age, like Kate was saying, maybe it doesn't necessarily have to be food because I feel like that may not be best, honestly, for a child to give up a meal, especially as they're growing and developing. But maybe take uh their tablet or say, hey, how would you like to set your tablet aside for an hour as I fast during this time too, and invite them in that time of prayer, make it a bit more practical for them because it's hard to take, you don't want to take food away from a kid, especially if they don't know the true meaning behind why they're fasting in the first place. I don't feel like that's healthy for that child.

SPEAKER_01 29:42

Yeah, I think the to Kate's point in Austin that that the principle of of self-denial, I think that that's behind fasting, it would be very similar to the practice of Sabbath that's you know baked into the old testament. And then that the principle and the imagery continues on through the through through the New Testament. You know, it is setting aside from this next obvious thing that I really want to do. It might might even be a responsible seeming thing or whatever, even you know, laying a field out for a year of Sabbath and those kind of practices require a lot of trust in God. And they it's a wonderful spiritual discipline, very necessary. If we never deny ourselves, center ourselves and focus on God, our um spiritual core gets pretty smushy. So there are lots of ways to talk about this. And and like Kate said, I you hear it a lot now to do different kinds of screen periods of no screens as a sort of a fast. That's a that's a safe discipline where you're not asked, like Austin said, you're not asking a growing child to be denied nutrition denied themselves nutrition. Boy, that's a that that would be a tough fast for most folks now, wouldn't it? We're gonna put my phone away for an hour or a day or uh some folks for five minutes, they might have a panic attack, right?

SPEAKER_04 30:57

I think kind of with everyone else, I don't know if there is an exact age where you start teaching about it, but whenever you do start teaching about it, I think just teaching that it's all about intentionality. And when you teach about fasting, remembering that it's not a consequence, but it's all about conviction and just wanting to spend that time with God. Like when you wouldn't fast from food as a consequence to try and lose weight, that's defeating the whole purpose of fasting. It's all about conviction of heart.

SPEAKER_05 31:25

I wonder if you all could talk about how you're supposed to act during a fast.

Fasting Without Performing For Others

SPEAKER_05 31:29

I remember when I was in middle school, my youth group did a fast. It felt like it was a big production, that we're a big show of it, and which in retrospect, I feel like that was kind of not what we should have been been doing. That it should be more of a private thing. What do what do you all think about that?

SPEAKER_01 31:43

Yeah, I can't I I mean, I can't speak to the what happened there at that that youth event, but it could easily become those kind of things. And it's interesting, the Jesus teaching on fasting, I think it's Matthew and towards the end of chapter five. The thing he nails is just what you said, Josh. It's when you fast, don't be like the hypocrites, for they walk around miserable like the hypocrites, for they disfigure the faces to show, okay, keywords show people they're fasting, and they've received their reward in full. He says, When you fast, put oil oil on your head, wash your face, so that will not be obvious to people that you're fasting, but only to your father who's unseen. So that I think to your point, that that would be something to definitely attend to. And Marley had a really good point as well. Don't conveniently piggyback your fast on something that you're wanting to not do anyway, or do anyway, right? We can easily do that, and that defeats the purpose too. When you think about, okay, the fruit of the spirit, you know, love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control. Well, that to cultivate that, we really do need some practices of self-denial. And to do that prayerfully in the Lord's name, we're gonna have to have a practice, right? And when Paul says, you know, the famous Philippians 4.13 verse that's written on every shoe sneaker, you know, on the football field and basketball court, you know, I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me. Well, the context of that is I've learned to be content in every and every situation, whether well fed or hungry. And so we need practices in our lives to be self-controlled, to be content, and to just be grateful and to be able to trust God. So somehow or another, the principle of fasting needs to be something that we are talking about with our kids and somehow that we're practicing in a way that works with our family, don't you think?

SPEAKER_06 33:31

For me and my wife, past two Saturdays, I just got or I just finished a book about the Sabbath and what that could look like for Christians. And so for the past two Saturdays, we've taken, I call it a seven-hour Sabbath, but it's just something we tried out for fun. And I thought it was really beneficial too, because during that time we just shut our phones off and we did a devotional together, we prayed together, and then towards the end of it, well, like one night, the past two hours, we ended up watching a movie together. But I don't think Christians are bound to the Sabbath because I I believe Christ is our Sabbath, but just setting that routine up even for ourselves helped us to slow down. And I think in a way that was an act of fasting in and of itself because it's it was denying, like, oh, I wanted to just naturally grab my phone. I want to go straight to the TV and watch forward, but it really for me, it really kind of made me think like, what am I gravitating or what am I drawing my attention to? Am I drawing it to other things that are really unimportant at the end of the day? Watching TV is not that important, nothing wrong with it. It's okay to to watch what you want, but watch sports, watch watch comedies and all that. But but it really helped me focus on my on my wife and most importantly on God during that moment. And I think that if I hope hope that kind of helped answer your question, Josh, like what are we supposed to do if we are fasting or giving up food? Like, I think it should be to seek after God in prayer, maybe through meditation on his scriptures and really asking God, like, reveal your will to me, not that I'm just gonna give up fasting because one, I know it's good for my health, but because the Bible tells me to, but but actually get to the why behind it and and find meaning for it.

SPEAKER_02 35:07

That reminds me of one time as a Lenten practice, because sometimes people fast during Lent, but it was suggested one time that instead of or in addition to taking something away from your daily life to intentionally add something to it, something purposeful, mindful of God, in a way that's uh intentionally serving God or recognizing God, and do that every day. So that just reminded me of that. And it might be, you know, whatever you're whatever you see fit, like it's helping widows or helping orphans or helping, you know, the prisoners, like just do something intentional that it is God love as a fast.

Simple Practices That Fit Real Life

SPEAKER_05 35:46

How can parents model these practices in a way that feels real and not overly serious or forced?

SPEAKER_01 35:51

Considering the pace of life in the year 2026, all I can say is good luck. Yeah. No, my, it's easy to sit in this podcast room right now and have all these wonderful suggestions. But people listening that are that are in the throes of things raising kids, I understand totally just the schedule, the necessary schedule that you're working through. So yeah, it's easy for us to have all these wonderful from the ivory tower suggestions, but it it's it is difficult. But I think that's a good key word about be finding ways to be intentional. And we're gonna have to, or not only our families in jeopardy, our civilization's in jeopardy if we don't start to be able to detach. Um, and uh because that those attachments are really nothing short of idolatry, you know. If if it's you know, if we are so attached to a thing, a schedule, not not encouraging irresponsibility, but we do have to find a way to be separate from the created thing, or it really that's nothing short of idolatry, right? And not good for our souls, not good for our kiddos.

SPEAKER_06 37:01

Kind of to piggyback off of what Mike's saying, I feel like definitely in our time and age, people choose convenience over contentment, and they want to stick to their schedule, but deep down they know they should probably take some time off to just rest, maybe to fast, go to the Lord in prayer, or just spend time with your family, have a bonfire or something. But I think in order to make um these practices not feel overly serious, is just do life together as a family, set those times aside to where you can be intentional with one another. It doesn't mean you have to fast at this time every week, you have to practice Sabbath at this time every week, but but maybe you're there's a struggle in your life, and that's the moment you fast, that's the time you sabbath or repent or go to the Lord in prayer. I don't think it necessarily has to be something that is like scheduled or routine, because then in a way that's kind of becoming like the world in a way, always trying to stick to your schedule, but but really just be mindful and prayerful about what's going on in your life and how can you invite God into that, and then how can you invite your family into maybe your own struggles or your own need during that time.

SPEAKER_01 38:05

I'm gonna circle back to kind of my soapbox on the that evening meal protecting it. I I do this every podcast, Kate. So that's yeah, but it really is instead of trying to think of one more thing to do and one more thing to do, this is just one more reason why to have that evening meal together that's protected because you're sometimes you're gonna be saying no to some other things to protect it. But that okay, but we're gonna protect this so that so there your soul is being centered, and there's some healthy detachment in that whenever you are protecting that, making it happen. Children are invited into it and are watching it. And you know, the other thing you could do is you know, morning devotional and protect that as well, but with with the kiddos. But here's one practice that will that will probably help you as an adult, adult listeners, is to give yourself, you know, to get up before the kids, to to sit in the chair, and and you may have devotional that you do or and that sort of thing, and and that's great. I hope, I hope you do. But here's one thing that anybody, even if you're feeling defeated and you're feeling like a bad parent, you're not doing your morning devotional or whatever, if you would sit in the chair and set your timer on your phone for eight minutes, and then sit in the chair and just be for eight minutes, and where you're not gorging on even intellectual content, you're not reading another chapter book, it's not productive time, you're not working on your schedule, you're not even reading scripture in that particular time. You're just making some space. And to just do that, to sit and be in the presence of God and in Jesus Christ's name for it for eight minutes in the morning, it really does open something and it's it's transformative, and that will be it will it will become a gift to your children. So I know it sounds kind of hokey, maybe, and you think, well, how could that help not to do nothing? But that's the whole point is don't think you gotta be productive in that eight minutes. This is kind of counterintuitive. Just set that timer and just prayerfully and in the care of the Holy Spirit, just be in God's presence for eight minutes without you're you're gonna have monkey mind, no doubt, and you're gonna start working with your in your head, your schedule and all that. But just when you realize you have, just take a breath, return to the chair. Okay, Lord Jesus, I'm just here. Period. That's it. Here I am. Okay, you guys might have some better thoughts than that, but that's that's the one that works. That's a good one.

unknown 40:27

Amen.

SPEAKER_04 40:27

Yeah, I think like we've been talking about this whole podcast, is just for parents to walk alongside step by step with their kids and not expecting their kids to do something that they're not willing to do. And just like everything, starting small and giving yourself grace.

SPEAKER_05 40:42

All right.

Reviews, Resources, And Closing

SPEAKER_05 40:43

If you've not given brain-based parenting a five-star review yet or told your friends and family they should be listening, I want you to make that part of your day right now, make that part of your structure and routine, and it's not too late to do so today. So until next time, you might have to loan out your cortex today. Just make sure you remember and get it back.

SPEAKER_00 40:59

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